In this conversation, Yoav Leitersdorf, Founder and Managing Partner of YL Ventures, and Ben Bernstein, Minimus CEO and Co-Founder, share the story behind Minimus—from what brought them together, to why they believe security needs a rethink, to key insights from their individual journeys as founders and leaders.
[This transcription was autogenerated, so there may be errors.]
Ben Bernstein:
Hi Yoav, it's so great to see you again.
Yoav Leitersdorf:
Hey Ben, how are you?
Ben Bernstein:
I'm good, I'm good. It's great to have you as part of the team.
Yoav Leitersdorf:
Thank you, thank you. I'm so happy to be here, so happy to be part of this enormous thing that you're embarking on.
Ben Bernstein:
Thank you so much.
Yoav Leitersdorf:
With Twistlock you pioneered the entire container security space and now with Minimus you're back to a very similar space. But what's changed in the market since the Twistlock days?
Ben Bernstein:
So when we, again, got the band back together again, we kind of looked at the whole, I'd say even the CWPP space or how it evolved since 2015. And we realized that people have gone from just kind of figuring out what cloud is to trying to make everything more efficient, teams working better together, software being created better, and they started kind of being more professional in each sub-area of almost anything, including security.
And I think if you look at the early days of the cloud, you'd see you had platforms like Twistlock that would just generate tons of alerts in various areas. Like it could be application security, could be sort of runtime security, it could be things that had to do with the infrastructure, it could be various things that would help you get more compliant. But over time I think there was a little bit more specialization in each area and if you look at the application security, it became sort of an unreasonable contract with the developers where if you look at the application themselves, like if you look at the infrastructure, you had some issues with the infrastructure, you want to make sure people don't do the wrong thing, and then you fix it and then it's done for the most part.
But when you look at the application, it became unreasonable. I mean, in 2015, open source was popular and there were all these images and people saw how some of them were slightly problematic, but now it's sort of grown to a magnitude that's totally unreasonable. And we felt like that specific area requires specialization and it's not like it couldn't be treated as the other areas because there's ongoing issues and the contract with the development team has become unreasonable on their end.
They're building software and then spending tons of time trying to fix issues they didn't even create. And all the teams around the world, they're all working on the same problems of fixing the same open source, know, packages, libraries, all around the globe. And it just became something that's almost comical. And all the folks we have been talking to in the past couple of years have pointed out that it's just ridiculous. They need someone to help them do that.
And so we decided to kind of evolve, just like the market has evolved, and produce something that truly helps people deal with these alerts and not just point them out. And that's what we've done with Minimus.
Yoav Leitersdorf:
What's the difference between entering an existing market, existing space like you're doing now versus pioneering a new one like you did with Twistlock? What's easier? What's harder?
Ben Bernstein:
Well, I don't see that truly as a new space. I think right now it's sort of a continuum of what we've done in Twistlock. But it is different because I think the need right now, we were overwhelmed by how much need there was. And back in the days with Twistlock, was, you know, we had to initially figure out who's our target audience, who's even building software in the cloud, who's really understanding and using the containerized form of producing software which is minimalistic and who are even the people in the ecosystem.
Back when we were one of the founding members of CNCF, you know, it was just a bunch of people talking to each other. Now there's more formality around all of it, but there's also a huge need. Honestly, one of the things we worry about right now is like being able to withstand all these need for the solution we're providing.
Yoav Leitersdorf:
Yeah, Ben, with both Twistlock and Minimus, you've built companies with strong teams both in the US and Israel. What lessons have you learned about how to build a strong culture across geographies? And what's the biggest challenge you face today in that respect?
Ben Bernstein:
Well, it's always been a little bit of a challenge to have an R&D team in Israel and then have a go-to-market team in the US. The upside of it is, frankly, I think the Israeli ecosystem has a lot of security chops. We're really quite well versed in knowing how to do these things, but we're not always very good at going to market.
And so you're trying to have two strong teams in different areas, but you want them to feel like they're part of the same company and part of the same culture. It's kind of weird, but what we noticed is that the time zone actually, time zone overlap is quite important. So we created some strong functions in the East Coast, which actually helped us kind of bridge between the West Coast and Israel.
And so, you know, our marketing function sits on the East Coast. Our CTO and also head of product, John, is on the East Coast. And he spends a lot of time and he's also traveling a lot. I really am a big believer in person so he travels a lot to Israel, he travels to the West Coast, he meets people, people trust him and once you build interpersonal trust in person I think it's easier to create a real team and it really has to do with some key people so we made sure that these key people travel a lot and they see people in person. I know it's not that popular to say these days but I think it's key.
Yoav Leitersdorf:
You've really gotten the band back together. A lot of ex-Twistlock folks across the Minimus team, what are the benefits of working with the same team? And are there any gotchas or risks when working with the same team again?
Ben Bernstein:
Well, you know, no one's perfect, so every one of us has pros and cons. You know, the team, you know, each team you work with, you know, they're good at something and maybe less good at something else. But I think what's really good about working with a team of people that you like and worked with in the past is that we all know each other. So, like, even if someone's doing something and you know that that's not his strong spot and so you know how to help them, or they know how to help you when it's not your strong suit.
And it's also a little bit easier when someone tells you, like, hey, I got this. So if you don't know that person, you never know whether he actually got it or not. But we all work together. I mean, all of the founders and all of the C-level team, we work together since, I think, 2006. I mean, Brian, John, Dima, we all work together in Microsoft, so we truly almost complete each other's sentences, and I think we work very well together.
We're definitely not perfect, but it's very easy for us to work with each other, and I think we're having a lot of fun together, honestly, and I think that's important too, because that's what makes you go through the day and go through sometimes hardships and stuff like that.
Yoav Leitersdorf:
Great. Now after Twistlock and Palo Alto, you spent some time on the VC side. What brought you back to being a founder?
Ben Bernstein:
Well, honestly, I love the VC side, but I don't mean, you know, it's very, it's kind of a trick question. I think it's great, but I honestly, I love being an entrepreneur. And I think also you, you're not like a traditional VC because you're an entrepreneur too. So I think you understand what I mean where there's something about creating something that is yours and that you can shape that truly helps people that just makes you feel great.
I mean like growing up, I loved doing silly initiatives like taking, I don't know, taking a bucket and cleaning windows of cars just to get money. So this is like maybe kind of an advanced version of that. But you know, doing something with your two hands and actually seeing the effect of it, I don't know, I love it. And I think you can do that at a VC too, but I think there will be maybe a time in future when I'm a little bit older where I might decide to go back to that again.
Yoav Leitersdorf:
I know it's very early for Minimus, but what's next? What are you most excited about for the next six months?
Ben Bernstein:
Well, in the next six months, we just need to grow very aggressively because, you know, everyone, you know, wants to build a big company, but you have to do it in the correct way. You have to have the right people. You have to make sure they're hands on and they need to be leaders and they need to be able to grow their own teams. And if you do it, you know, in a wrong way, you need to fix it later. And it's very, very hard.
And this space is a hot space and there's, you know, a lot of buzz around it so we need to be laser focused on being able to help our customers grow aggressively and try not to do things which later we will need to fix. So definitely the next six months you're going to see stronger product. Reach out to obviously more customers and more traction, which is already too much for us to actually deliver right now.
And I think in six months, 12 months, once we're hopefully at the right size, we will be able to tell you a little bit more about the strategy. But maybe a hint is that at the end of the day, we're a security team. I think our strong suit is security. And we have a lot of big plans around how, you know, Minimus fits within the cyber security ecosystem. And I think it's going to really fundamentally change application security.
Yoav Leitersdorf:
Very good. Thank you. Great answer.
Ben Bernstein:
Thank you. Thank you. But maybe I can ask you a couple of questions since we got online together. You know, you've known me and the team since the early days of Twistlock. From your perspective, what's the biggest difference between how Minimus operates versus how we operated in Twistlock?
Yoav Leitersdorf:
Well, I can think of two major differences. Of course, there are some other smaller differences, but I feel like with Twistlock, going back to when we initially funded you guys and we had to think of a name together and we had to think of a whole market entry strategy and we had to launch within a few days, we were creating a completely new category. And we also had to, there was a big sort of speed element.
We had to announce as quickly as we can because we wanted to be first in the space, in a space that is completely new. I think what's going on here is the problem has been around for a while and I think Minimus is tackling one of the most persistent and recognized problems in security or in IT in general. So we don't need to do any market education. What I feel like we need to do is just bring the best product to market, an elegant, simple solution that will solve everybody's existing problem.
And that's the thing here, is really just to execute on the best possible product and obviously the best possible go-to-market as well. The other big difference is the team's experience. So at Twistlock, you know, not to belittle your experience pre-Twistlock. I mean, you spent a lot of time at Microsoft. All of you were very experienced also from the IDF, but now you've got Twistlock as another experience under your belt when you're doing Minimus now.
So obviously, you know, you are a lot more experienced than you were when we backed you the first time at Twistlock. And that, I think that, that means a lot of different, a lot of different things. Also changes the way that, you know, that you and I work together. You know, obviously I have so much respect for how you're running your company and how you and your co-founders are building the best product in the market and the best go-to market that there is.
We believe Minimus has the potential to become the largest and most significant cybersecurity company. And that's it.
Ben Bernstein:
Thank you, thank you. Really appreciate it. Maybe another quick not curved question. You and YL in general have an incredible track record of investment in early stage companies. When you think about your very successful investment, what are the common traits you see across companies in the YL portfolio?
Yoav Leitersdorf:
Yeah, and it's interesting because your team at Minimus basically has everything that we're looking for. And so you are the perfect poster child of what we look for. Obviously, not all teams have everything that you have or everything that we want, but we're essentially looking for as many of these characteristics as possible.
First, we're looking for exceptional founding teams that are domain experts, not just, you know, tourist entrepreneurs that are just coming into a space they don't know, but rather people that have really lived the problems and the tech space for many years and can really identify clear problems instead of just pushing solutions that are looking for problems. They can articulate exactly what the market needs and their product matches the pain point perfectly.
The most successful startups in security target large and growing markets, right? Not niche solutions. So we're looking for the pains to get bigger, you know, for the customers to need solutions even more and more. So the need kind of gets exasperated over time, right? It gets amplified over time, I should say.
We also like to look at how founders communicate. The best founders articulate the value propositions in customer terms, not technical jargon, which you're very good at. Just making it easy for CISOs and buyers to understand right from the start. They have, they they call it the elevator pitch. You're able, in the length of time that you travel in an elevator, to pitch your entire product. And that's very unique.
We're looking for founders that listen and adapt. So even though they have strong opinions and you do, and you're stubborn on your vision, but you're flexible on the details, you adapt, listen, you listen to your customers. That's really important. The customer validation happens before writing a lot of code, right? And that's totally something that you guys have done.
You've talked to lot of customers before you actually started writing code. We're looking for that in every team. And I would also say capital efficiency is really important. If we invest a seed round, it could be 8, 10 million or more, in this case a lot more. And if the founders are not efficient with cash and burn through that cash too quickly and add a lot of risk in terms of how they manage finances, obviously that's not great.
I also want to talk about recruiting top talent, which you've done phenomenally well. You're working with superstars. We're looking for that. We're looking for people that can recruit those kind of people. And finally, we want you to balance your passion with a pragmatic approach to building a company. You got to maintain emotional resilience. And you've got to be rational at the same time. You know, founders that have all of that, those are all qualities that we look for. Minimus has all of it, thankfully.
Ben Bernstein: Thank you. Maybe one last question to you. How has working with founders changed over the past decade? And if it did change, in what way or why?
Yoav Leitersdorf: Yeah, I'd like to say in general, founders in cybersecurity have become a lot more mature over the last decade. So, you know, if we think about the time when you founded Twistlock, I think a lot of founders were first timers. The industry was not super well established yet. You know, cybersecurity was relatively new the way that it is defined now.
You look now a decade later and most of the interesting companies are founded by serial entrepreneurs or entrepreneurs that have other deep experience that is highly relevant. They're a lot more thoughtful about what they're doing. They're thinking about building big companies, leading entire categories and not quick exits. It used to be that founders just wanted to make a quick buck and maybe change their life.
Now I think founders are looking to make a real big mark on the history of cybersecurity, the evolution of the market. And that's the kind of people that we look to partner with is people that are looking for the long run. I would say the bar is higher now, especially for first time founders, but also for any startup.
I think that to work with the best investors, you've really got to be one of the best founding teams. And that's also changed from 10 years ago. Specifically about Israeli startups, I want to say that they have demonstrated remarkable resilience since October 7th, 2023. I mean, 2024 was a record year. $4 billion was raised into Israeli security startups, which is double the number of 2023.
But just in general, Israeli founders have had to deal with teams being called up to reserve duty, lots of geopolitical tensions, travel problems with airlines not flying to Israel. But there's been an uptick in activity. Lots of leading firms from Silicon Valley have been doing deals, especially in 2024. And so we're proud of how resilient the ecosystem has been.
One other last point I want to mention is that something that's really getting more popular now versus 10 years ago or so is what we call the split seed structures where funds like us like to partner with other top tier global VCs such as Mayfield to work together in backing strong entrepreneurs and teams like Minimus. I think that's a very successful model. We see it working out here really well. And that's another big change from a decade ago.
Ben Bernstein: Thank you Yoav. As usual it's been a pleasure. Great things are going to come and I'm so happy that we're going to do it together again.
Yoav Leitersdorf: We are extremely excited about you and your team. We, as you know, are your first and biggest fans. We are looking forward to doing everything we can to help you be successful. And we have all the confidence in the world that you're going to take over the market by storm. Good luck.
Ben Bernstein: Thank you so much.
